Margot Vulliez: using robotics to help people

Can you tell us about your background? 

At secondary school I took a science course specialising in engineering sciences. Then I entered a physics and technology preparatory class. Finally, I completed my university career by joining the Ecole Normale Supérieure Cachan (now the ENS Paris - Saclay) where I studied mechanical engineering.  My ambition was already to specialise in teaching and research.

After that I did my thesis on the design and optimisation of a new haptic device based on a parallel architecture, between Poitiers and Stanford in California. I continued this work as a post-doc at Stanford for a year. When I came back, I took up a position as a lecturer in a robotics and biomechanics laboratory in the RoBioSS team and I gave lectures at the Poitiers IUT. I stayed there for 3 years before joining Inria in 2023.

Has joining the world of research always been an obvious choice for you? 

From secondary school onwards, I really wanted to go into research or teaching. I was looking for a job that would allow me to rack my brains, away from the highly productive system. I wanted to get involved in a field where you can think, without necessarily being forced to create a product. I like the idea of being able to explore different avenues and research offers just that kind of freedom.

Is research a passion for you? 

First and foremost, I'd say it's a fascinating job, with some really cool themes. I also like the idea of being able to move from one subject to another, especially in robotics where our work covers such a wide range of fields, it's very enjoyable. I wouldn't describe it as a passion, but it's a job that I love!

Can you tell us more about the research work at Auctus and your current position? 

Auctus is a very small team. It's made up of 4 researchers, a research engineer from the experimentation and development department who is attached to the team, around ten interns and doctoral and post-doctoral students. We're a small group, so it's very easy to get on well and work together, and that makes it easy for us to agree on common values.

The team's overall objective is to design robotic assistance systems or collaborative robots for humans at work, particularly in the industrial sector. This focus on humans stems from the observation that many workers have very arduous working conditions. It's time to think about a better way of assisting them to relieve the strain!

The first step in assisting people is to understand them better. This question leads us to a first line of research, linking cognitive sciences and biomechanics, to model and predict human behaviour by analysing gestures, postures and movements. 

This understanding enables us to propose strategies for assisting and coupling the robotic system with the human. This second area of research aims to optimise interaction and collaboration between the human and the robot, i.e. the action and perception they will share. The team's third area of research is the design of these assistance robots. This involves both the mechatronic design of new robot architectures, better adapted to the human or the task to be carried out, and the design of new control laws that optimise the robot's behaviour, in terms of performance, safety or human comfort, for example.

Our premises are located at the Ecole Nationale Supérieure de Cognitique (ENSC), but we are regularly called upon to come to Inria, and in particular to the experimental rooms, to carry out experiments with volunteer participants in a neutral and calm environment, which these rooms provide. The experimental validation of each of our developments, on real robots and with human subjects, is an essential stage in our research.

Was it a logical step for you to join a research centre like Inria? Was it something you wanted to do, or was it an opportunity that came your way? 

First and foremost, it was an opportunity and a series of encounters. I wanted to move into the world of research and teaching and the position of Senior Lecturer was just what I was looking for. I met the Auctus team and hit it off very quickly. We get on very well, both scientifically and on a personal level. This meeting enabled me to become a research associate, which gives me better conditions to carry out my work.

At the moment, for example, we are proposing new approaches to shared control for remote operation, and this is a theme that brings together several members of the team. It's very inspiring to work as a team, with everyone contributing their bit and I really like the way it works.

In teleoperation, the human pilots the robot remotely to carry out a task, using an interface and often with feedback (visual and haptic) to perceive the remote environment. This is a very interesting form of interaction because it enables the human to carry out his activity in complete safety and to use the robot's physical capabilities on site. 

However, distance, movements limited by the teleoperation interface, etc. make the task more complex and limit the use of teleoperation. Our work seeks to rethink the use of the robot in teleoperation, no longer as a tool controlled by the human but rather as a collaborative agent capable of assisting him. This assistance takes the form of control laws that can guide the human in his movements by force feedback, or adjust the robot's movement by exploiting its functional autonomy. It's a real challenge and I find it very stimulating!

What's more, I'm still committed to teaching, which I find very rewarding, and I continue to give a few courses at the Bordeaux IUT. It's a different posture that makes you question yourself and rethink the way you teach. For me, education is essential to reducing the inequality gap.

What impact would you like your team to have in the research community? 

Our team focuses its research on improving human working conditions, particularly in industrial contexts, with a clear objective of reducing drudgery. In this human-centred approach, we pay particular attention to the societal impact of our work. We therefore choose to commit ourselves to projects that are in line with our values, avoiding, for example, collaborations that have a negative environmental impact or are strictly military in nature.

Personally, I'd like robotics to have less of a negative impact on the environment. I'm aware that this may seem paradoxical, because our robots consume energy. However, I hope that we will succeed in designing robots that are more economical and sustainable, while meeting human needs and taking account of climate issues and global constraints.

What are you most proud of in your work? 

I'm very proud of the creative power we are given. In robotics, we have the chance to put scientific theory into practice by developing physical prototypes of robots, on which we install controllers. It's particularly gratifying to be able to put on great demonstrations and show the fruits of our labours, whether to the general public or to industrialists.

I'm also very proud of my students. Passing on this profession, teaching them scientific methodology and instilling in them a passion for research is very satisfying. It's great to see a young researcher beginning to take charge of his or her research topic and to take control of the direction it should take. 

Were you inspired to embark on this path?  A motivating figure, a trigger? 

I come from a family of teachers: my parents, grandparents and great-grandparents were almost all members of the teaching profession, so I grew up surrounded by inspiring role models in the teaching field. However, I don't think I met anyone in particular who made me want to do research specifically.

What are your aspirations or ambitions for the future in this field? 

I want to continue on my merry way. To be honest, I don't have too many career aspirations, I'd just like to continue doing research with nice colleagues and gear my scientific research a bit more towards making a positive impact. 

I'd also like to be involved in and witness the wider changes in the world of research. Participating, for example, in the development of public policies in support of this field and that of teaching. I also think it's important to improve publication and evaluation systems to move towards qualitative communications, associated with results and open data. I'm also hoping for organisational changes on a smaller scale, to improve the coordination of the robotics community, for example, and thus aim for a greater impact on society.
 

You work in the world of research, more specifically in the field of robotics, which is a particularly male-dominated field (if only in your team!). Did you find it difficult to find your place? 

During my time at school and university, I worked in a very male environment, with only two girls for around sixty students. This experience certainly helped to shape my character. Today, I have the necessary resources to deal with the gender bias that unfortunately exists in the research community. Sometimes I even deliberately put my foot down when I spot sexism around me; I don't let such behaviour go unchallenged.

That said, I'm well aware of my privileges: I'm part of a particularly caring team. I haven't really had to deal with any inappropriate remarks during my career, and I didn't have to ‘fight’ to get this job... However, even if there are no obvious obstacles, it's still essential to assert yourself. You mustn't hesitate to speak up and have a ‘big mouth’ when necessary.

How do you see the representation of women in these circles? 

There are women in these circles, but more generally, I feel that their visibility, like that of gender minorities and racialised people, is still too low. Initiatives do exist to bring diverse profiles to the fore, but there is still a long way to go.

It's crucial to value people from different backgrounds. In terms of visibility, there is a huge amount of work to be done. We need to succeed in deconstructing biases from a very young age, and this involves mediation and the images we show of robotics, to present it as an activity open to everyone and not just reserved for white men.

Parity and inclusion are important issues for you. What are your ambitions in this area?

I'm convinced that everything depends on education. That includes learning mathematics, mechanics and so on, but it also includes a real education about society. I'm part of the Parité-Égalité working group at the Inria Centre at the University of Bordeaux. With this group we organise preventive actions and highlight career paths, which is very important. This enables our audiences to become aware of existing biases and our privileges. It's time to put all these questions on the table.

What do you think could be done to reduce the gender gap in research? 

Mediation plays a crucial role. I realised that biases appear very early on. Even if society is changing, it's still far from perfect. There are still too many little girls who believe that scientific fields are reserved for boys. It's essential to present our work to the youngest children, from first grade onwards, to show them that you can achieve anything, whatever your gender.

There are also local actions to be taken, particularly in the workplace, to ensure that women and men work under the same conditions. I'm thinking, for example, of breastfeeding rooms, access to workspaces that are suitable for everyone...

It's a complex issue, because the more we want to do, the more we realise the scale of the task. Highlighting career paths is a good thing, but it's not enough to eliminate bias, and explaining them to children can be tricky. Perhaps associations and small support and mentoring groups are possible solutions. But it's clear that upstream work must be a priority.

I'm also thinking of the question of bias, whether it's gender, social or cultural. For example, in an environment like Inria's, where career paths are often fairly homogeneous, it's important to encourage a diversity of profiles. I have in mind the case of a student from a different geographical and social background, who spoke at his old high school in the Paris suburbs. His testimony had a greater impact, precisely because he embodied a concrete and accessible pathway. This type of initiative helps to create positive benchmarks and inspires vocations in young people who don't always see themselves in these possibilities.

In the course of your career, you have travelled to the USA. Have you noticed any cultural differences when it comes to gender issues in the scientific community? 

When I arrived at Stanford for my postdoc, I realised that there was a lot of training on harassment, gender bias and racial bias. From an institutional point of view, I think the issue has been on the table there for longer.  When I was studying at Stanford, it was compulsory to get training. 

Do you have any hobbies or passions outside research? 

Yes, very much so! I play a lot of music, especially jazz. I play drums and bass clarinet.

At the moment I also have two activities that take up a lot of my time: I have a garden in which I plant trees all over the place, I've created a large vegetable garden, built a chicken coop and wooden structures... I also do carpentry, but that's a lot like robotics: I like tinkering and building things, whether it's wooden furniture or robots.

To conclude, is there any advice you'd like to share with the next generation of students, especially those at secondary school or university who are in the process of deciding where to go at school?

Don't be afraid of failure. You have to try and be curious.

I would have liked to have been told earlier to find the subject that appeals to me and go for it. It's sometimes hard to specialise, but you have to open yourself up as much as possible to find the subject that interests and motivates you, whatever the field.